The guys left a gig to find the roads iced over. Still they chanced the motorway, but it wasn't the best decision...

Joe is in the midst of writing his new album, and he's had some epiphanies which are pushing it to the next level. Also, we welcome new co-host Savitha/DJ Digital Hippie, from Zero1!

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This episode was edited by Aino Väänänen and Alex Story and transcribed by Ben Gildersleve.

Transcription

What up guys? Welcome, welcome, welcome to the Futurephonic podcast. I'm Alex.

Savitha

And I'm Savita.

Alex

We're coming at you in late November, 2020. We're still here. We're still alive!

Savitha

Just barely.

Alex

Hanging on by a thread. It has been a while since our last one. I think the last time we did a podcast, the world was still pretty stable. The global economic situation was not totally ravaged. Um, we wanted to come back with my new co-host as well, Savitha, why don't you tell folks about yourself?

Savitha

Okay, well, I'm Savitha or Savi, if we're friends, and some of you might know me as Digital Hippie. I'm with Zero1 (yay! Zero1). Nice to be talking to you guys.

Alex

Yeah, it's great to have you on as the new co-host for the new Futurephonic podcast.

Savitha

We're so global Alex, you're in Finland, I'm in Goa.

Alex

So global yah! But yeah, I just just miss chatting in the pod form. I missed, I missed the pod chats, you know, have you are you are you a pod person? Have you always been?

Savitha

I'm somewhat of a pod person. I like some podcasts. I like some crime podcasts, literature podcasts. But yeah, this is my first foray into the podcast world, but it's so exciting.

Alex

It's a nice way to connect with people, and I feel like we all need connection more than ever, at this point in time.

Savitha

Yeah, I agree with them.

Alex

Totally feeling you on the true crime - what is with true crime? Is that not something that we've sort of realised about ourselves as a, as a species that we just love, kind of, sort of voyeuristically looking at?

Savitha

Yeah, because everyone wants to be a detective or a spy, that's what it is, secretly.

Alex

I guess the way that they arranged the show is it makes you feel like you're doing the work. You're seeing stuff that even if there's like 20 detectives of 20 years can't even see like you almost want to call in.

Savitha

Yeah, because you have all the information from all sides, but I just love it. I love it a lot.

Alex

And like, like on Netflix, as well, they have you noticed that they do this thing of like, at the end of the first episode, you're like, it's definitely that guy who did it. And then at the end of the second episode, you're like, well, hang on a second. Maybe he didn't do it.

Savitha

Nowadays, the ones I see, like, they don't really give you any closure. Like they build it up, and then in the end, they kind of leave it open-ended because there might be like a season towards something. I find that really frustrating. It's very frustrating. I need closure, Alex.

Alex

Even though it's real life and then you have to stop yourself from, like, searching the news, websites or like what really happened. Well, we are here today, we're gonna be joining in a moment an old, old friend of mine, Joe Markendale AKA Sonic Species.

Savitha

Sonic Species!

Alex

First, let's get in the know about Joe.

Savitha

As Sonic species. Joe signed to the mighty Nano Records and he's been signed since 2017.

Alex

Joe lives in Ibiza and is a keen practitioner of Tai Chi.

Savitha

Joe's music both as a solo artist and collaborator has frequently found its way to the top of the beatport charts. Joe has played at such legendary festivals as Boom, Ozora and Universo Paralello.

Alex

Joe is currently working on the second Sonic Species album, follow up to debut album 'Unleash The Beat', at which point I can no longer talk about Joe without mentioning myself because as many of you know, I co-founded Sonic species with Joe back in the good old days and wrote that album with him at our studio in Brighton and I'm sure we'll be talking about that today. We were living together in his one bed apartment at the time for the purpose of writing the album and gigging and just generally going full on with a music career. So we'll probably be doing some reminiscing about that. Let's go to Joe.

Joe

Yeah, okay, I've got the headphones on. Say something.

Alex

Hello?

Joe

Ah that's better actually.

Alex

Oh, great.

Joe

Okay, so let me just see I've recorded that it's got it's got a little bit of...

Savitha

The fizzing went away after you put the headphones on.

Joe

Oh, great. Oh, great.

Alex

I like a bit of fizz, myself.

Savitha

[Laughs] Me too.

Joe

You mightn't be able to record it then because it's a bit zingy. I think it's because I've got quite a lot of metal in my apartment, metal and glass.

Alex

Metal?

Joe

It's quite minimal still.

Alex

What are we talking about here?

Savitha

Are we talking, like, music?

Alex

Polished chrome or stainless steel?

Joe

Yes, stainless steel and shiny chrome is sort of my palette, my colour palette is met-, is, uh, is silver-metal-glass.

Savitha

It sounds very Ibiza!

Joe

Black and white and orange... But burnt-orange.

Savitha

Ibiza 2021

Alex

A little bit industrial, a little bit bauhaus.

Joe

And I've got these little white leather, sort-of, egg chairs. It's sort of like, it's like, imagine kind of NASA meets kind of like retro. I mean, I haven't developed the place that much, I can get me one of these cool little unit then anyway,

Alex

Retro NASA. I like the sound of it.

Joe

Exactly. NASA meets the 60s. Nothing much in here really to be honest.

Savitha

You're making it sound amazing. Like, in my head, it's totally like madman meets The Jetsons.

Joe

[Laughs] It is a bit Jetsons, I've got this killer retro sofa, a burnt-orange retro sofa that goes nicely with the eggs. Now I need to get some Tibetan.... What I want is, like, one of those nice Tibetan symbols on a piece of paper.

Savitha

I have a Tibetan friend who lives in Ibiza who you can meet. Maybe she can help.

Joe

Maybe she can paint it on the wall or something?

Savitha

She likes psytrance.

Joe

Does she? Well I won't hold that against her.

Alex

Oh, awkward! Psytrance. Not sure about that...

Joe

Yeah, I don't know... I generally move in other directions these days..

Alex

I don't go above 120bpm these days, to be honest.

Savitha

Yawn!

Alex

140 is so passe.

Savitha

I promise you when I played my first gig, it felt so fast because I've been listening to Frank Sinatra and stuff.

Alex

I have a picture of Joe and my partner, Aino, in a bar where we were playing that game where you put a celebrity's name on your head and someone else puts it and you have to guess who it is. And I gave them both Frank Sinatra.

Savitha

And did they guess it?

Alex

Yeah, Aino got hers first and then Joe was like, "Oh, it's so obvious!" not knowing that he's got also, Frank Sinatra. He was like, how can she not get this, it's so easy.

So Joe, are you recording audio?

Joe

No, no, I haven't. No I'm not yet. No. Should I be?

Alex

Okay,

Savitha

Jesus, that was like a good copy, Joe.

Alex

We're missing all this gold!

Joe

Hang on a sec, I'm recording it now. Yeah, it looks all right. I mean, my voice is f*cking a little bit unstable. I mean, sometimes it's quiet, sometimes it's LOUD!

Alex

I guess just try to sit quite close to it, if possible.

Joe

I am, I'm almost hunched over, doubled over in pain trying to get this stuff.

Alex

I've got it taped to my face. Is that not good enough?

Joe

I've got it running through 15 limiters and a f*ckin'...

Savitha

Is that music?

Joe

No, I haven't got music. I don't listen to music.

Savitha

Oh it's music. Oh, it's coming out my window. I've got a neighbour having a wedding. It's Goa.

Joe

Oh my God! Can you just lean out the window and say, "Excuse me. Do you mind? Would you mind? We're trying to record a podcast here"

Savitha

I tried earlier! It didn't work!

Joe

"Can you just put a leash on this joy? The most joyous day of your life."

Alex

[Laughs] Just lean out the window with a decibelometer and just sort of...

Savitha

Dude, the volume is intense.

Joe

I think it's, when I laugh it's clipping. It clips a bit when I laugh. Yeah it's alright though a bit of limiting on Ableton never hurt anybody, did it? Ram it through the roof. Skrillex, and all that!

Alex

Just make some sweet dubstep! So Joe, you're joining us from Ibiza. Stretched back on a sun lounger, I trust.

Joe

That's right. Yes, sipping on a pina colada.

Alex

Good, good.

Joe

And, um, working on my non-existent tan, you know. I'm working on my neck tan, I'm always trying to even that out. But yeah.

Savitha

A lobster tan!

Joe

No, not quite. No, I didn't get that far with it. It's just more of a t- shirt. But you know, you do what you can right? It's still sunny over here. Where are you guys? I mean you're in Finland Alex.

Alex

Yeah.

Joe

And are you in India, darling?

Savitha

I'm still in Goa, dude.

Joe

In Goa, wow!

Savitha

Well because, why leave, right? America is not in good shape.

Joe

Is it not?

Savitha

It's not very it's like total lockdown again, extreme surge in cases.

Joe

Wow, that's no good, is it?

Savitha

Hashtag. It's better in Goa.

Alex

I think by April it should be all...

Savitha

Yeah, April is when I'm planning to go home, spring is nice. Anyway, what's the point of going now?

Alex

April 2025 2026. That kind of thing.

Joe

You've got the date for the whole pandemic being over, have you, Alex?.

Alex

Yeah, yeah. I'm not allowed to say it on air.

Joe

Okay.

Alex

Yeah, I'll message you later. It's uh, it's a lot longer than you'd expect. Funny that.

Joe

Oh, yeah?

Alex

Yeah, I thought it's gonna be next year. I was WAY off.

Joe

Oh. Ah, nice to have a bit of a breather you know sometimes, isn't it?

Alex

Yeah, there's like a sort of interval planned. We get about six months off and...

Joe

Oh!

Alex

Yeah... But then we... then we slide back into it.

Joe

Oh, oh ok.

Alex

Yeah, sorry about that.

Savitha

It sounds bleak.

Joe

Well, at least those six months. I mean, that's gonna be good fun, isn't it?

Alex

Yeah.

Joe

Do you think we're gonna, do you think we're gonna be allowed to go out and stuff? Or

Alex

I wasn't given that deeply classified. Umm...

Joe

You weren't given that.. Okay, well no worries. Just keep me up to date. Because if there's gonna be six months of freedom, then I can plan a holiday.

Savitha

Hey, Joe. I suggest coming to Goa if you want. You can have eight months if you like.

Joe

I'm going to Bali, actually.

Savitha

Are you? I think Asia is okay. Because either they're under-reporting or it's okay. I don't know.

Joe

I don't really know what's going on there. But I mean, I've got my reasons to pop over to Bali for a couple of months.

Alex

I happen to know what they are.

Savitha

Should we take a guess?

Joe

Well, I mean, it's a multitude of things, you know, but it's, yeah, you know, taxidermy is one thing you know, they're big on stuffed rabbits. I mean, you just can't get them like you can get them there. But no, I'm going there for, umm, to develop another project I'm working on. Well, I can't really say anything more about that at the moment. And also, you know, it's a nice place Bali and, you know...

Savitha

Is it like inter-gender relations?

Joe

What, you mean dating?

Savitha

Yeah, dating.

Joe

[Laughs] No, it's nothing... No it's no inter-gender. No.

Savitha

You said 'multitude' so I'm just like, I'm throwing it out there.

Joe

Oh, no, no, but hopefully there'll be some inter-gender relations happening. Okay. But it's not that's not the reason for the trip. No. Yeah. Anyway, so But you know, I tell you, in Ibiza, you could be in a lot worse places.

Savitha

That's how I feel about here.

Joe

Yeah, well, at least it's better here. But yeah.

Alex

Ibiz--

Joe

I'M JOKING! Hahaha!

Savitha

It's not good. It's so nice here. We have parties and everything.

Alex

Is the Ibiza club scene happening right now?

Joe

Yeah, of course. Yeah. We've got 20,000 people every night in clubs over here.

Alex

No, but. But really?

Joe

Yeah, it's like in the past... No, No, we haven't. They're all closed.

Alex

Right.

Joe

No, they're all going into, some of them are going into virtual reality. A friend of mine, Tom Jenkins, is working with a couple of clubs here, you told me you know Tom, and he said, this afternoon, they're launching Dimitri Vegas and Like Mike in VR, so there's a cool VR platform they've been working on. Anyway, I'm keen to see that. I think that was around, that was an hour ago. So yeah.

Savitha

Yeah.

Alex

Can I just say that I had that idea, like, a year ago.

Savitha

We're talking about it!

Alex

Yeah, someone was like, I put out an Instagram poll, which was like, it was about climate change, and like, all the flights happening and someone had said something about like parties impact I was like well, okay, well like how would people feel if you had like a virtual club where the artists, where you can have like the most amazing lineup from the whole world and they were just tuning in live and people were like "yeah, I mean, I dunno"

Joe

But that was going on anyway, that's been going on for a while, people are doing tickets, selling tickets for online events. I mean, maybe it wasn't going on when you thought of it.

Alex

This is pre-COVID.

Joe

It was already going on pre-COVID, it's already a concept, I think.

Alex

Look, man, it was my idea!

I thought of it! And I'm trademarking it!

Savitha

If I had a dime for every genius idea I've had that somebody else has made like billions out of

Joe

That's right.

Savitha

You know what I'm saying? I'd be a billionaire.

Joe

Maybe you'd be a billionaire. And look, I had the idea first for the, you know, the clothes line that has got an umbrella coming out of the top, you know, so those circular things you hang clothes on, pull it up, comes out, umbrella goes over the top. I mean...

Alex

Wait, sorry. Sorry. Can you repeat that again?

Joe

It's taking a clothesline with an umbrella coming out the top so you don't have to go out in the garden to take your clothes in when it's raining. See what I mean?

Alex

OH!

Savitha

It's good for the British Isles.

Joe

Yeah, it would have saved a lot of time for my mom back in the old days.

Savitha

Look, I have an idea. I think that the music world should take a page out of like the NBA

Joe

Oh yeah, you want to do, like, psytrance playoffs?

Savitha

Yeah, well, no, but they managed to have a virtual audience. Like people were like streaming in from their houses and like them like their actual faces and their like reactions that were stuff. We're like, streamed live like seat by seat.

Joe

What does it mean? Yeah, the faces. That's interesting.

Savitha

Yeah, they put a screen on it. See, that's a lot of money and a lot of bandwidth. I guess.

Joe

That's cool. I still think, you know, how difficult can it be to create a cool virtual space and have people with the headset, which me and my friend just got, the top of the range new Occulus Rift?

Savitha

Yeah.

Joe

And, and, you know, you could put on one of them, go some, and maybe that's what they're doing this afternoon with this, this VR event? But I mean, that's the one I think, isn't it?

Savitha

It's, virtual reality is the new thing, isn't it?

Joe

And augmented reality as well. So you know, we were talking about the other day, you know, you could potentially do something like boom festival, for example, if you add cameras around the dance floor, a little bit big brother, you know, then people could buy tickets that weren't able to physically be there. They could be there in their headset. Then people in the festival could, if they wanted to, could wear augmented reality glasses. That would show them the people that were there in VR on the dance floor. So you'd be dancing with a combination of you know, and that none of those people, none of those people would be able to spill your drinks, you know, so it's a win-win.

Savitha

That's the future, baby!

Alex

Aren't we kind of hoping that like, by the end of, like, next year, we're going to be into the clear?

Savitha

I mean, what's your prediction for the first clear, like summer? 2022? Right?

Joe

That's what I'm hearing.

Alex

2022 by which point, Joe, you might be hoping to have a new album out?

Joe

Yeah, well, that's it if I haven't got it by 2022. I'll be hanging up the towel, I tell you. I wanted to have one before the end of this year, but there's been, you know, I'm still working on it. And to be honest, I've been doing a variety of stuff as well, because you know, there's no gigs. So, you know, for the first you know, lockdown happened whenever I think it was what march was it? Yeah. I actually got a hold of my new studio in Ibiza, in December. And, but I didn't get my new monitors. Focal SM9s, which are the best monitors I've had and the studio is the best studio I've ever had.

So the Focals came in April. So really, in April, I had the first real professional studio, my old housemate Pat (Zephyrus Kane from Nano)built it with his bare hands, you know, to the golden ratio dimensions, you know, so it's a perfect studio, and it's huge. And it sounds impeccable. And those speakers are the right size for the room.

So really, that situation has only been there since April. So I spent the whole of lockdown just getting into, you know, making beats and baselines and frequencies and mixing and, you know, got rid of a load of tunes I was working on because they just weren't, they just weren't that good. You know, sometimes you just gotta accept the fact that, you know, they're just not that good. You know, and just make something better. And that was the thing that also brought me in lockdown. It was like, you know, it was making music and I was working and then you know, I had time to focus on, you know, getting really under the hood, with the production, you know, which which I hadn't had a chance to do like that before, because I haven't had a professional studio with proper big monitors that are really good at the same time.

Number one, I know it sounds ridiculous. But I mean, the idea to have a pro setup like that is not a small thing. That's the first time I've had that.

So, you know, I've been going into that deep and obviously not having to go away every weekend and travel like that has meant that I've been able to really focus in on production because you know, what I'm looking for, in my music, is, you know, production such a fundamental part of the trance music. I just want fat beats. That are just so fat, you don't even need any other sounds. And then, you know, you could just listen to them on repeat

Savitha

I'm sooo down with that!

Joe

Good, you know what I mean? And then any sounds you have, you know, are extra and that's great. But you should be able to listen to the beat on its own with the baseline rocking and maybe just, you know, there's always maybe a couple of sounds to keep it going but I want to I want to get into that level, you know, and that is why I've spent the last seven months or whatever it is just making beats a lot. You know, I've been making tunes but I've been making a lot of beats trying to find that way of just creating something that is this, I call it sustainable grooves.

Savitha

Like P-H-A-T, phat!

Joe

Exactly. Like exactly, you know um, yeah, do you know what I mean? So that's really been what's going on.

Alex

Maybe it was kind of, um, it was like Crystal Sequence by Astrix. That was that kind of era with that track, specifically when we were back in the day, sort of obsessively referencing the music we love. Like there were so many like that track was perfect.

Savitha

Always Astrix.

Joe

But it's always those underground ones.

Alex

And it just, it just evolves on its own steam, and it just has very tasteful little splashes of sound on top of it, but there's no, at no point do you feel like it needs to like, kind of get up and start running around, it's just sort of laid back and just floating on its own momentum.

Joe

Totally. And there is a lead and there's a lead at the end. But it's you know, by that point, you've already had so much uptime from basically just beats and then a few sounds, it's just brilliant.

Alex

Yeah. And I think I think that's, that's like, when I listen to people's demos and works in progress, and maybe people who are still kind of working on their production, I think it's so common to like, put, keep adding sounds and keep adding more leads, more layers, more effects, more squelch and more squeaks and more FM and even MORE FM. And it's all just compensating for the fact that the underbeat isn't rolling enough.

Joe

Totally.

Alex

You know, and because it's like when you really got the kick, bass, percussion and then just those, you know, I would achieve that through like the the lower-mid layers, the electro-lines, as I used to call them, and very sort of like laid back grids once you have that the kind of like, like, no actual active sounds, but just kind of a sort-of throbbing atmospheric, kind of underbeat, then, you're just like, ahhh, maybe I'll put a sound maybe I won't!

Joe

Exactly! Because then that's where it's at. Because it's like, and that's why I spent all the time this time making beats because, you know, if you, when you write, you know what it's like, Alex, when you're writing a tune, on top of a beat that's not, like, fat and properly produced if you write a different tune, if you've got a beat this-

Savitha

Story of my life, guys.

Joe

Yeah, exactly, exactly. And it's the story of most people's life, because it is hard to, to produce a beat, you know, to the standard that you you're happy to just fucking listen to that beat and nothing else. But I do think that the thing I've been doing since lockdown is I've been really trying to get the beats just as good as I can get them. And that before I start writing the tune, because the kind of tunes I write, when I've done that are completely different, you know, yeah. And then you can get into this cool rocking, mood, sometimes minimal, but it's not because you've got such a powerful beat. Yeah, you don't have to have lots of sounds. And one of the beauties, one of the things I found really cool about that, recently, and in a track that I'm working on for my album, is that you know, you can have the sounds 10 times louder than I ever could have before, because there's just one big sound happening at one moment, and a beat in a baseline. So the Yeah, some of these sounds, like, they sound so loud. And it's just because there's not 20 sounds trying to play at the same time, you know.

Alex

There's no compromise happening, it's just less it's just like so much so much more and and when you when you're in that place where the kick bass and percussion isn't, isn't quite there, then why the I think what makes it so frustrating is that you're adding really good sounds and it doesn't sound right and you're like but I don't know what more I can do if I'm adding good stuff and the tracks not sounding right. Like you might not realise that you're cycling through gold and it's never gonna work. You got to put you got to go back to the foundations and work on that. Do you, I mean, what's your, what's your method for improvement? Are you referencing, like, how?

Joe

I am referencing but those speakers those Focal SM9s

Savitha

It's the Focals.

Joe

Yeah, the reason I've not had Focals before I've got friends, Bonen X-Noize uses Focals and he's obviously a very, very good producer and but you know, these ones are big Focals with a passive radiator on the top and they're a little bit like the Barefoots but they haven't got an active subwoofer on top, they just got a passive radiator, but there's some technology that gives them a nice amount of bass. They're big speakers but the reason I got them is because, a little plug for Focal, is that they translate very well. All the people that use them, Grouch actually has a pair, and I think he was speaking to me and I-

Savitha

BOOM! Bought!

Joe

There you go, exactly! Grouch's mixes are phenomenal. These speakers are renowned for good translation. It was these speakers and I got a good deal on them. But I think it was like three and a half grand and for, you know, for the same size, or maybe it was four but over an open box that got it but the same size Barefoots are like 13, 14 grand, and I have worked on them because lots of my friends have them. And I've got to say I prefer the sound of my ones, it sounds more vibing to me,

Savitha

They break in, don't they?

Joe

Yeah, they're breaking in. And you know, but I've been trying lots of different kinds of music on them as well. And it does translate. So as much as I do reference, I'm not like insanely referencing. I'm just, I'm just getting it to sound massive on those speakers. And generally, that's coming out sounding good on everything.

So, but it's been it's been weeks, you know, it's been that don't get me wrong. I mean, it's the lockdown happened, I've been in there doing, you know, working on a beat, a kick and a bass and percussion for a week, two weeks, you know, fiddling with it, and then finding my new ways of doing it and getting it to sound fat, and then speeding up, you know, I went in there the other day, and I did it in you know, a couple of hours.

So it speeds up, but it's just finding those, you know, I never really felt like my production had gotten to the point that I was happy with it. And you know, since lockdown This is the first time that it's you know, getting in a direction where I can start going okay, now we're now playing with something which has got the potential to be, you know, very good, you know, still not not not there yet. But having that space in those speakers and the time is-

Savitha

I think you can feel like you can trust those speakers. So it gives you a lot more freedom to like, go Hey, I like how this sounds. So it might sound good.

Joe

Yes. Right. And that's why I think they're enjoyable because you know, I was making stuff on them and checking it on the phone and not checking it wherever. And it most of the time. It's sounding good. So you can trust them, which is really, really a nice feeling to be honest.

Savitha

Trust is everything. As we know, guys.

Alex

When you have that thing of like, I didn't know if that. I don't know if that is right, but it sounds right. And then and then you hear it on a car and it sounds good you're like "yes, my instinct was right!". And when you can trust your instinct, that is such a huge thing.

Joe

Priceless!

Alex

I also have to say that everything you said over the last two minutes about feeling like your production was getting there like, mate, we were having the exact same chat like 12 years ago.

Joe

[Laughs]

Alex

I think I have to call it...

Joe

But it's REALLY getting there now.

Alex

I have to call it that because it's like, you know, it's seriously like word for word is what we would have said when we were working on the first Sonic species album of like, you know what? Yeah, I think we fuckin like, got up the next level, you know? And so you never, you never get there. I think the satisfaction increases, doesn't it?

Savitha

Are you saying I'm 12 years behind Joe? That's exactly how I feel!

Joe

[Laughs]

Alex

No, I'm saying that it never stops. I'm saying that...

Savitha

How he probably felt before the first album is like how I feel now, so...

Alex

I'm saying that you're never gonna leave there. Because if...

Savitha

Yeah, but that's a good thing. It's healthy.

Joe

Yeah, I think you can get to a point I think, you know, I do, obviously Alex is right, in the sense that, you know, you're always going to be wanting to improve, but, you know, there is a point that people can get to where they genuinely, like, you know, you any sound system you play it on, it sounds like the fattest tune of the party, you know, obviously when you've reached that point, you're good, you know, so, you know, that's it and just finding out your way of getting to that stage. Because, you know, we do have to go out there, well, we used to, anyway, and play these tunes to people and you know.

How it comes across on the dance floor, I mean, the amount of times I've got to witness it firsthand, a great tune, productions maybe not as good as it could be, and then the people move differently and then someone else plays something, there's really not as good a tune but it sounds fat and it's just the dynamic changes that you can see how people dance when the production, when the productions done, like sounds good on these big sound systems. You know, obviously you can get away with what you can get away with but when you've been in a game for a while, like, we have then you know you really there's that's the thing that I want you know, and I won't be satisfied until I've cracked that code and you know, I've got a lot closesr since lockdown that's what I but I haven't you know, I'm just like I've written a albums worth of finished tracks but I mean, I've worked I've got millions of sketches I'm working on...

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